Corrales-Castillo controversy rages!

October 13, 2005

An interesting telephone conference took place Wednesday afternoon, which included WBC/WBO lightweight champion Diego Corrales, Corrales' trainer Joe Goossen and promoters Todd duBoef and Gary Shaw. The topic was last Saturday's Corrales-Castillo fight in which Castillo failed to make the weight. Corrales and Goossen stated they believed Castillo never intended to make the weight, Shaw went a step further and said in his view there was criminal intent on the part of the Castillo camp in regard to not making weight and cheating on the scale. duBoef admitted that there was incompetence on the part of people running Castillo's camp, but he did see Castillo trying to sweat off the pounds. Shaw also added that the rematch will be with the same conditions as Saturday's fight (at 135lbs), however he said he has caught wind that both the WBC and the WBO are thinking of vacating Corrales' title. SHOWTIME will replay the fight between Corrales and Castillo this Saturday, Oct. 15, at 9 p.m. ET/PT.

Below is Showtime's transcript of what was said.

DuBuof: I want to welcome everybody to the call and more importantly want to thank all the press for the wonderful turnout that we had this week. It was terrific and we appreciate it. Obviously, the performance that Diego and Jose put on in the first fight garnered the support that you gave them for their terrific second fight. It was a pleasure working with everybody and I think that our dreams of making the rematch that we did come true came true. It was a terrific fight and everyone -- the fans, hopefully everybody -- walked away with a good feeling. We look forward to you guys watching this once again on SHOWTIME this weekend. So it was terrific working with everybody and I will throw it to Gary, my partner on the show and let him make some comments.

Shaw: I agree with everything that Todd said other than I did not walk away with a good feeling. But I will reserve those comments for another time. I would like to turn it over at this time to Joe Goossen to say a few words.

Goossen: The good feeling part is what I picked up on too. Todd, you had it right except for that. But we walked away feeling good on the last one. We did not walk away feeling so good on this one. But I am looking forward to the third one and that I hope comes about and I hope Castillo is able to fight us at 135 because I think the rubber match will, like most rubber matches, prove who the real top guy is in that division and between these fighters in this series. So I am really looking forward to that. I know last time I did not want to hear about a rematch. This time I do. I want to get back in the ring with Diego against Castillo and I want to prove to the world that Diego is the No. 1 135-pounder out there. Even though he still is champion, I want to fight Castillo at 135 so it is a legitimate 135-pound championship to decide who the real lightweight champion is.

Corrales: Todd, everything you said was true except for the good feeling part. I agree with Joe on that 100 percent. I also feel exactly the same way. Everybody explained that the last fight was shrouded in controversy and look at this one. I believe this fight should happen again. I am looking forward to this rematch. I think that everyone is again going to have to prove who the best lightweight is because it is not proven yet. So we have to go and do this again.

DuBuof: I was referring to the good feeling of the fans. We are all in this business and we all have our ups and downs.

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Question: Diego, did you feel like you had hurt him in any way at any point along the way?

Corrales: Absolutely. I was punching his body. I could hear him make noise when we were in that ring and I knew at some point I was going to be able to break him down. I came back at the end of the third round and told Joe, 'I have got him.' I got careless. I got caught and paid the price.

Question: Gary, any second thoughts about allowing him to weigh in and why did you arrive at a number like 147 pounds? Obviously, that is two weight limits over where he should have been.

Shaw: I tried for 45, but I spoke with Chico and Chico had trained hard and he wanted to fight. The cancellation of this match would be maybe one of the biggest black eyes in the history of boxing and could forever ruin pay-per-view. We had an obligation to the fans. Chico would not have made a dime, but we would have owed money on a breach of contract. I wanted in my own mind to mitigate as much damage as I could, so I tried to make a deal. But I will tell you one thing: on that night, Oct. 8, Castillo may be the best 147- or 154- pounder in the world, but Chico is still the best 135 pounder in the world.

Question: If there was a breach of contract, it was not on your side, but on the other side. Diego made the 135 pounds, did he not?

Shaw: He did and to answer the question, we had a joint venture. And whether I should be indemnified and Chico should be indemnified because he weighed 135 pounds may be a question for a little later on.

Question: Diego, what was your take?

Corrales: If they are going to put their foot on the scale, they had absolutely no intentions of ever making the weight. Secondly, I could have said I am not going to fight, but the bottom line is if I do that, you have a lot of fans that cannot get their money back. I had an obligation to fulfill my end of the contract and make sure this fight happened and I did that but it cost me. This is something now that our sport cannot afford. This is a great game and I love my job. I take my professionalism and my sport very seriously and I handle myself exactly in that way.

Question: If you have a third fight and a similar situation arises, do you fight him again at whatever weight he comes in at?

Corrales: The honest truth, I am not going to even give these guys an opportunity to attempt anything like that again.

Question: Do you think Castillo weighed in over the limit on purpose?

Corrales: I respect the game and they knew that and they knew that I would not let this game be battered or bruised by a big card just being canceled.

Question: (Forgetting what actually transpired), do you feel you were ready for this fight again? Do you think it would have helped if you had two or three more months to prepare?

Corrales: No. Even when I fell for the bait, I will not say that. Castillo landed a great shot. Time was no factor. I got careless.

DuBuof: To everyone saying that he had no intention on making the weight, that to me is a hypothesis by people ringside. All I can tell you is that after the initial weigh-in, about 20 minutes after the camp left, I actually went to the spa myself at Caesars Palace and saw him and his trainer in the spa, shadow boxing in the spa. So I do not know if that was really the case. I saw with my own eyes.

Corrales: My wife just happened to be down there with some of my family and watched Castillo go up and watched Castillo come down 20 minutes later. I have been in situations where I have had to cut a lot of weight where I have actually had to go in the sauna. I have never been able to cut two pounds in 15-20 minutes. That is amazing and that is about how long it was before he came back down to the scale.

Goossen: If the roles were reversed and I had two hours to lose 3 1/2 pounds, I would have taken one hour and 50 minutes to lose that weight. I would not have come back down in 20 minutes and taken a shot in the dark. So that just tells you right there, Todd, if the roles were reversed and guys like Diego, who do their job, would have used that two hours to its fullest extent to get down to 135. Face it, the kid gave up.

Question: Chico, how tough was it for you to make 135 and how big a role did that have in your performance?

Corrales: I am a big guy for this weight and it is not easy for me to make the weight either. But that did not have any effect on my performance. I was in great shape.

Goossen: Diego is almost six feet tall. It is extremely hard to make 135. He is being very nice about it. He had to go a couple, maybe three days, eating very meager sustenance. Not much at all. If the playing field is even and the other guy has to do it, then you say, OK. But when you have to make 135 and the other guy does not, he has to work less hard than you do. He does not have to sacrifice the same amount of food you do. In those terms, it does affect your performance because one guy does not and the other guy has to. So it affects you just by the fact that the other guy did not have to sacrifice.

Question: Why is a third fight a good thing?

Goossen: I can assure you that Todd will have a handle on that next camp and I can assure you Top Rank will have a representative inside that camp monitoring that guy's weight all the way through. If they do not do that, then we would be hesitant to take a rematch.

DuBuof: We are all on the same page here. What happened on the night of the weigh-in is inexcusable in the sport of the business.

Goossen: Todd, would you or would you not monitor that camp very closely if we were to do this a third time?

DuBuof: You and I are saying the same thing. We are professionals. You said to me, 'if I have two hours, I would take 1 hour and 55 minutes,' but we have a bunch of amateurs running around that think they are doctors and everything and they are nothing but frauds and coming for a payday.

Goossen: What would you do to assure the press that they would not run into this again from your side?

DuBuof: I was embarrassed. We would insist on having a much more proactive role in all of our fighters in these situations that have the same crew around them. It was horrible.

Question: Is it going to be good for boxing to drag everything up again in a rematch so soon?

Corrales: You have to look at how it makes you feel. You do not see back-to-back fights like me and Castillo are doing. You do not see it anymore. Is it good for boxing? Absolutely., Absolutely! The controversy is what it is. But guess what? For what Castillo and I are doing in that ring, it is good for the sport. Everybody that came to that fight left happy.

DuBuof: The courage that both of these fighters put on the line those two nights is what this sport is missing day in and day out. The beauty of the sport is what these two warriors put on those two nights. That is the old-time boxing and is what makes the fans happy when they walked away.

Question: But at the end of the day when people are calling the other camp cheaters and disrespectful and criminals and things like that, that clouds everything, doesn't it?

Shaw: There are two stories to this fight -- what happened outside the ring and what happened inside the ring. Inside the ring, what everyone is telling you is exactly right. In two fights, they have seen 14 spectacular rounds of boxing by two real warriors. What happened outside the ring is a whole different story altogether that needs to be told. It will not happen again, not only the next time for these two, but never again in the history of boxing. And the fans are interested in seeing round 15.

Question: Gary, did you actually feel before the fight that it was a disadvantage that Castillo came in at that extra weight? And also what do you think about how the odds did not change significantly in light of the weigh-in?

Shaw: My understanding is that the odds did change on the knockout and the odds came down dramatically on Castillo after weighing in and they realized that the fight was going to take place at more than 135 pounds. Were we at a disadvantage? I believe so. Our fighter made weight and their fighter did not. I think if we would have said to Chico, 'you have got to go in at 175 pounds,' he would have done it. That is who Chico is. He was not going to not fight and disappoint every one of those fans.

Question: Diego, you said you felt you were hurting Castillo to the body '" do you think the added weight helped him or not?

Corrales: I never thought about the weight and whether it was working to my advantage or disadvantage. When I was landing my shots, all I was thinking about was keep landing good shots, beating the body. I think it pays off no matter what weight you are at.

Question: Gary, do you feel that this really should have been in the hands of the commission to decide rather than you guys?

Shaw: They made Diego weigh in when he came to the arena to see where they were. I think if there would have been a 10- or 12-pound difference, probably (Marc) Ratner would have called it off. I do not know how to answer your question.

Question: It just seems unfair to put it on the fighter or the trainer, doesn't it?

Shaw: Can you imagine if we had pulled out on this huge pay-per-view event what the ramifications would have been for boxing. We discussed it before and after the fight and maybe Diego took one on the chin this time, not for Castillo, but for all of boxing.

Question: Gary, how can you protect the fighter from this happening in a third fight?

Shaw: Well, we will probably insist on some 30-day weigh-in, 20-day, 10-day, all the way down the line so we will know where we are at. According to Bob Arum's statement, they may not fight at 135. So that would mean that Jay Prince and myself and Diego and Joe would have to sit down and discuss whether we want to fight a rematch at a different weight or do we just want to pass on the rematch.

Question: Diego, the next time you fight, if you fight, do you think you are going to start training so quickly? Will you change anything?

Corrales: It is hard to tell with me, depends on my mood. I might not start fast and I might start fast.

Question: Looking back on the second fight, did Castillo seem more powerful in the ring?

Corrales: I would say the guy's got a good shot, he made some adjustments.

Question: So it was the adjustments he made rather than the actual power that he carried because of the weight?

Corrales: I am not saying that either. I think they are all factors, but I am not going to make an excuse. That is not what I do.

Question: Joe, weight issues aside, as Diego's trainer, how would you approach the next fight with Castillo?

Goossen: I think you would have seen a little bit more versatility out of Diego. I think they were both trying to set the pace right off the bat and may have wanted to get some frustrations out right off the bat. I think what you will probably see is the blend of strategy we would have gotten off the ground had it lasted longer, without giving too much detail.

Question: Todd, did you or Mr. Arum have any idea before the weigh-in that Castillo was not going to be able to make weight?

DuBuof: No.

Question: And when you guys were negotiating the catch weight, why did you object to 145?

DuBuof: My understanding is that there were a bunch of them who were down there. I had left there because we had another show that night that I was headed to. So I was not involved in that. I do not know.

Question: Gary, do you have a contract for a third fight at 135?

Shaw: We have a contract that says a rematch with the same terms and conditions as fight two. So that would say, yes, 135.

Question: Joe, if the weigh-ins for fights were the day of the fight, what weight class would Corrales fight in?

Goossen: 135. That would not change and I will tell you why. Bringing the weight down slowly is very professional. Not to crash diet the last two or three days to make it. So Diego makes 135 the right way. I never crash diet him and I never starve him. He just eats a lot less. So he can make 135 even on the day of the fight because he, as a lightweight, should be at 135.

Shaw: I would like to go back to weigh-ins the day of. I believe the weights that the fighters are coming in in the ring are nowhere near the fights. It is much more dangerous.

Goossen: They did it out of trying to make it less dangerous, but what they have done is they have added an extra 10 pounds to weight that fighters would never have brought in the ring with them being they could not have eaten that much the day of the fight.

Question: If Bob Arum insists on a catch weight of 137-138 for the rematch, will there be a third fight?

Shaw: I have not had that discussion with James Prince, Diego's manager, or Diego or Joe. If Bob Arum says Castillo cannot make 135 and if Diego is willing to vacate his titles to fight at 138, that will be a decision ultimately that Diego will make all by himself. But we will back Diego in whatever decision he makes. If he says no, it will be no.

Corrales: I am not going to answer that question because I am not going to even give him an opportunity to do that. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Goossen: If they do that, it definitely proves that they never had any intention of coming in in the last fight at 135 -- never.

Question: Diego, did you spit out the mouthpiece in the first fight?

Corrales: First off, my jaw was sore. First time, it came out of my mouth on its own. It was nothing deliberate. The second time, I pulled it out and my intention was to get up with it in my hand and catch my breath, put it back in my mouth and then go on and go. It is not something uncommon. But accidents happen. It slipped out of my hand.

Question: Chico, ideally when would a rematch take place?

Corrales: If we can do it tomorrow, I do not care. I do not need a break. I am fortunate enough. I did not come out of the fight with any major injuries. I am OK.

Shaw: Todd, Bob and I will sit down and find out what dates are available. Then we will go back to our fighters and camps and tell them the date we are thinking about and make sure they are both available and that will be the date.

DuBuof: We are probably looking at the spring of '06. You have the Winter Olympics in February, so that really clouds up February and then you are looking sometime in March or something. No idea on the venue.

Question: Who at Top Rank was monitoring his weight and who reported it to the commission?

DuBuof: We give that to the manager and to their people at Fernando Beltran's office because they are in touch with the camp. I am not in contact with anybody at their camp other than his promoter, Fernando Beltran, and his office.

Goossen: For the guys that are professional and have a track record of doing the right thing, we do not need a babysitter. It is for the guys that are not doing it right, they need the babysitter and once they have proven they can do it right, then they can take the babysitter off of them.

DuBuof: Joe, you are the professional. Unfortunately, you are a dying breed in this business.

Shaw: Word has leaked to me that both the WBC and the WBO are thinking of vacating the title because they did not fight for the title. Now, you in the press have to tell me how my fighter could be penalized. He got on the scale at the directed time with the supervisors there and weighed 135. Is his 135 title now supposed to be switched to 149 or 150?

Question: Chico, a third fight with Castillo -- is it more for yourself or do you feel that you still need to prove to the fans?

Corrales: I think a third match is for both. You have a lot of people who really admire what I did. But I am sure there are a lot of people that also might be saying, "Hey, he did a great job as well." In that situation, it would be for me because I would want confirmation as to who is the best lightweight pound champion. For myself, there are a lot of things I want to prove in this game still. I am trying to take advantage of the time I have.

Shaw: The one great thing about Chico is he is truly a throwback to the old time fighters who really fought. I do not think that the fighters need these breaks. I think Diego Corrales and his legacy will be: he only fought the big fights. He did not duck anybody, he took them all on one right after another.

Question: What do you prefer as a fighter weighing in the day before or the day of?

Goossen: I prefer it the old way, the way that it worked forever. It was a true test of a fighter and his trainer working in conjunction, bringing that weight down scientifically. You know, now you can starve yourself for three days and not eat and then the day before the fight you can just start gorging. That is dangerous for the body and is dangerous for smaller guys in the same division that do not put on the same type of weight.

DuBuof: The IBF currently has a system which kind of blends both systems. If you weigh in and make the weight, at 9:00 a.m. the next day you cannot be more than 10 pounds above the weight limit of which you just weighed in the day before. Now, I do not know if that is a good way too.

Corrales: Honestly, to me, it really does not matter. I am going to be professional no matter what it is and if the rules are that I weigh in on the day of the fight, then I will do that.

Shaw: I think if we went back to the day of the weigh-ins, we might reclassify some of the fighters. We may push fighters into different weight classes probably where they really belong because they might not be able to make that weight the day of.

Question: Have you heard anything directly from the sanctioning bodies regarding the vacating of the titles? This was just a rumor, correct?

Shaw: I have heard nothing directly from either sanctioning body.

Question: Do you feel because of the circumstances of this fight that the admiration is not going to be the same if you fight a third time?

Corrales: I try to live and let go. That is one of the things that I really do try to do and right now, this has really been bothering me. I will not lie to you. I fell for it and that more than anything burns me.

Shaw: In Castillo's last remarks at the press conference, he said a couple of nice things about Diego and some things about me and James Prince. We will get through that. But I think Castillo needs to be reminded that we were doing what was in the best interest of our fighter. That is how we acted. But we never acted illegally. I think he needs to look in the mirror and be honest with the world and say, "I cheated and my team cheated. We got caught."

Question: Joe, what do those 3-4 pounds mean to a fighter like him going into a fight? How much more work does he have to put in?

Goossen: If we would have been allotted 3 1/2 extra pounds, we would have eaten more than slices of sushi at maybe 8:00 at night. That would be the whole meal for the last three days. You are cutting out almost all of your liquids. On top of all of that while you are starving and not drinking, you are also training to get that weight down with heavy clothing on in a gym with the heat on. So it is a pretty grueling thing. These guys do not walk around at 140-150. They walk around at 160. It is the last 3-4 pounds that really cuts to the bone. But that is the way it has always been done and is the truth of a fighter's courage, discipline and work ethic.

Question: Diego, if this third fight with Castillo does not go through, would you be consider going up to 140 and going after Mayweather?

Corrales: Right now, I am 135-pound champ. As long as I am that, I am going to fulfill my obligations to my sanctioning body first because I do have an obligation to them based on what happened with this last fight. I just feel that I do owe them and I should go ahead and fulfill the obligation by handling my mandatory and do stuff.

Question: Gary, what is your opinion on that question?

Shaw: I know we have a rematch clause. Diego wants it invoked. I trust Todd. I believe that they will make the fight according to the contract that we have at 135 pounds. Hopefully, that will be totally done and finished within the next two weeks.

SHOWTIME will replay last Saturday's fight between Diego Corrales and Jose Luis Castillo this Saturday, Oct. 15, at 9 p.m. ET/PT.