PART FOUR:
Boxing through the eyes of a cutman!

April 30, 2004

By Trinidad Guzman

Photo: Roger Williams

Jacob “Stitch” Duran is one of the most prominent cutmen, not only in boxing, but also in the mixed martial arts “UFC” competitions as well as Japan's widely popular sport of K1 kickboxing. Most people would be exhausted by that amount of time consuming work but Duran does not stop there, he is also a representative for the non-profit organization “Retired Boxers Foundation” and once a week co-hosts with his partner Nick Ward a local Las Vegas radio program “The Thirteenth Round” dedicated to the sweet science.

If that was not enough, the fifty-two-year old Duran is also credited with being the pioneer of the widely talked about documentary “A Boxers Nightmare” which features some of the biggest players within the sport of boxing conversing about the changes that they feel are needed to thrust boxing into the twenty first century and protect its most prized possessions… the fighters! Fightnews was able to sit down one-on-one with “Stitch” and in this four part in-depth series get his take on everything from his groundbreaking film to the secrets of becoming a quality cutman in the cutthroat boxing industry.

How do you find the time to work with so many different fighters in so many different events and still put such serious time and energy into promoting your documentary?
I couldn’t do it without the support of my family.

Speaking of working with fighters, who are some of the better-known boxers that you have worked with?
Johnny Tapia, Raul Marquez, Frans Botha, Fabrice Tiozzo, he just won the WBA light-heavyweight title in France. I also work with some of the young kids like Ishe Smith, and Kelvin Davis, who will be fighting for the IBF cruiserweight title.

Has there every been a situation where you are working a fighters cut and you thought to yourself that there would be no way you were going to be able to stop the cut from bleeding?
Raul Marquez, out of any of the cuts that I have worked, Raul Marquez ‘s were the worst in his bout with Keith Mullings. He ended up with three major cuts and two smaller ones; a total of five cuts altogether and something like seventy stitches. I felt proud about how I handled those cuts, because I would clean him up and he would go in there and for the first minute or minute and a half, if you can control the bleeding for that period of time then you have done your job, especially with major cuts like that. I feel very confident in what I do and if there is a cut that is really going to be serious where it is going to affect the fighter I’ll be the first one to tell the doctor, lets save him for another day.

Do cutmen usually get paid a percentage of the fighters purse or a flat fee?
Both, it really depends on the fighter you are working with. For the most part, the four and six round fighters, I don’t even charge them because they are not making much money. When you get into the bigger fights, the standard that most cutmen would like to see, especially with a big money fight, is a two percent payoff but a lot of times that does not happen. Sometimes a fighter will just pay you a base fee.

Since you have first hand experience working with boxers and UFC fighters as well as K1 kickboxers, I would like to get your thoughts on veteran prizefighters competing in the K1 competitions held in Japan?
I recently worked with boxer Cliff Couser for a K1 bout in Japan, you have also had Vince Phillips, Frans Botha, and Butterbean that have all made the transition from boxing into kickboxing and they went in there without any knowledge of the sport. When Cliff called me, he called me just to work as a cutman, but after speaking with him he basically had zero kickboxing training.

So he was on the same path as the previous boxers that had fought in K1?
He was on the same path. With me being his friend and having the kickboxing background, I spent three weeks with him and we did a crash course on the defensive aspect of the sport, he even ended up throwing some kicks and did pretty good. At least he went in there with some knowledge of the sport and even though he lost a three round decision, he did not get hurt in the fight. Botha is 0-4; Vince Phillips had his arm broken and his legs destroyed. Shannon Briggs just fought and won and is really the first boxer to win in K1. The difference is that Shannon Briggs has had about two years of training for K1. You have to have some experience going into these fights.

Why are these former champions going into K1 in the first place?
Trinidad, the money in Japan is very good. They can make a star out of a guy that used to be a star in boxing.

With the boxers losing so badly in K1, do you feel it gives boxers a bad image?
In Japan it does. Right now it is not even a contest, these boxers and getting destroyed by the kickboxers, because they are getting into a game they know nothing about. Just because you are good with your hands, it is going to take a lot more then that to win at K1. The boxers probably don’t care what anyone thinks because they are making serious money. Cliff Couser, what he made in Japan he will never make in a ten round boxing fight.

Do you anticipate the trend of boxer’s fighting in K1 continuing?
Oh yeah! Absolutely, with the amount of money they are throwing at these fighters, without a doubt. The fans in Japan love it big time.

Having worked with boxers and UFC fighters, from a cutmans perspective, what is the biggest difference between the two sports?
The UFC fights are a little more often and sometimes the cuts get a little bit bigger then in boxing, because you are allowed to use elbows and knees, but a cut is a cut and the UFC fighters are tough guys, modern day warriors and the best athletes I have seen to date. The UFC organization has done what no other organization has done and I admire them for that.

What exactly has the UFC done that is different then other combat sports organizations?
They have hired in-house cutmen that are paid by the promoter. We are there for the safety of the fighters.

Do you feel that this type of in-house system eliminates the possibility of having a cutman in there that does not know what they are doing?
A good example of this is when Ken Shamrock fought Tito Ortiz. Ken had a guy that was supposed to be a cutman and as you know Tito was just beating the crap out of him for two rounds, Ken was bleeding and swelling and this guy was using a small little Q-tip to try and plug a dam. In the third round he asked Leon Tabbs, who was the stand by cutman for that side, to take over and come in but by then the damage was already done.

In-house cutman are only stand-by, the UFC fighters’s are allowed to bring in their own cutman?
Absolutely, we sit at each side of the octagon and as the fighters come on we will talk to the trainer and let them know that if they need us we are there for them.

Could you envision this same type of in-house cutman system working in the sport of boxing?
It will never happen. I think it is a great idea for promoters to have their own stand-by cutmen, but these fighters come in with their own team and for the most part, in boxing there has always been a trainer, second, and a cutman working the corner. They have already established that foundation for themselves. Cutmen work on egos and sometimes they don’t want to admit that maybe another cutman is a little bit better then them.

How would you recommend that someone break into the sport as a cutman?
If you want to become a quality cutman it takes time. You have to put time and effort into the sport and hang around somebody who knows the game. I am more then willing and glad to help, I got a call from a guy in Canada the other day that has a fighter that will be fighting soon and was cut on the eyebrow, he asked me my opinion and I told him what I thought he needed to do and my recommendation. You have to be taught, you cannot just walk into the UFC or boxing and become a quality cutman.

What do you do when you are not working the corner or tending to one of your many other responsibilities?
I work for a company called Trepco. They are a wholesale distributor that sells grocery items to stores. I am the outside sales rep, I open up new accounts for them and if clients are not paying I go and collect money from them.

So you’re the Mob?
(Laughs) Yeah, yeah I’m the hitman. I tell them my name is Rocco and it’s time to pay up. If I get a bounced check, I have to go collect. I also somehow find time to do a radio show with my partner Nick Ward every Tuesday night.

What is the name of this radio show?
It’s called the “Thirteenth Round” and it’s a local Las Vegas show that is on Tuesday night from 7:00-8:00 P.M. on KLAV 1230 AM. It can also be heard worldwide by going to alltalkradio.net.

I take it that this radio program is about the sweet science?
It is 100% boxing. We have callers who can call in and we talk about everything that has to deal with boxing. We talk about current events, past events, history, anything that people want to talk about that deals with boxing we will bring up. It is really a great show. If I happen to be out of town I always try to call into the show and being that I have a good relationship with fighters and trainers it allows us to have special guests on the show. We are kind of like the Howard Stern of boxing; we don’t censor anything, we let reality speak for itself.

Also See: Part I | Part 2 | Part 3

Questions? Comments? Please e-mail Trinidad Guzman